Legislature(2007 - 2008)

02/14/2007 03:42 PM House W&M


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HB 13-RETIREMENT SYSTEM LIABILITY/BONDS                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:45:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HAWKER announced  that the next order of  business would be                                                               
HOUSE BILL  NO. 13,  "An Act relating  to prepayments  of accrued                                                               
actuarial liabilities of  government retirement systems; relating                                                               
to  the  Alaska Municipal  Bond  Bank  Authority; permitting  the                                                               
Alaska  Municipal Bond  Bank  Authority or  a  subsidiary of  the                                                               
authority to  assist state  and municipal  governmental employers                                                               
by issuing  bonds, notes, commercial paper,  or other obligations                                                               
to enable the  governmental employers to prepay all  or a portion                                                               
of  the governmental  employers' shares  of the  unfunded accrued                                                               
actuarial  liabilities  of   retirement  systems;  authorizing  a                                                               
governmental employer  to issue  obligations to  prepay all  or a                                                               
portion  of the  governmental employer's  shares of  the unfunded                                                               
accrued actuarial liabilities of  retirement systems and to enter                                                               
into a  lease or  other contractual agreement  with a  trustee or                                                               
the Alaska Municipal  Bond Bank Authority or a  subsidiary of the                                                               
authority  in connection  with the  issuance  of obligations  for                                                               
that purpose,  and relating to  those obligations;  and providing                                                               
for an effective date."                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HAWKER,  sponsor of  HB 13, explained  that HB  13 empowers                                                               
the Alaska  Municipal Bond Bank  Authority (municipal  bond bank)                                                               
to  utilize   its  credit  enhancement  services   for  political                                                               
subdivisions  that  may  wish  to  structure  a  pension  finance                                                               
transaction  to   help  meet  the   costs  of   unfunded  pension                                                               
liabilities.   He  noted that  HB 13  provides the  state another                                                               
method to  resolve the various state  employers' unfunded pension                                                               
liabilities.    Chair  Hawker observed  that  there  are  various                                                               
methods  to reduce  pension  fund debt,  such  as early  payment,                                                               
refinancing at  a lower cost,  or reducing operating costs.   The                                                               
bill  contains concepts  that allow  the state  to refinance  its                                                               
unfunded  pension  plan  debt  at   a  lower  rate  of  interest.                                                               
Although a similar  bill, House Bill 278, was  considered in last                                                               
year's legislative  session, HB 13  has been expanded  to empower                                                               
the executive  branch to pursue  such transactions that  it might                                                               
deem appropriate  to help resolve  the state's  obligations under                                                               
the Public Employees' Retirement  System (PERS) and the Teachers'                                                               
Retirement System (TRS).   He emphasized that this  bill does not                                                               
execute, direct,  or authorize  transactions; rather  it empowers                                                               
the decision  makers to bring forward  proposals for transactions                                                               
they may  deem appropriate.   He opined that  HB 13 takes  a more                                                               
innovative and  contemporary view of  the state's ability  to use                                                               
structured financing.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:51:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
FRANK   J.    INGRASSIA,   Chairman,   Municipal    Finance   and                                                               
Infrastructure  Group,  Goldman  Sachs   &  Co.,  referred  to  a                                                               
PowerPoint  presentation  titled,  "Pension  Obligation  Bonds  -                                                               
Overview  of Structure  and Current  Market Opportunities"  which                                                               
was also  provided to the  committee.  He informed  the committee                                                               
that since  2000, a number  of factors have caused  steady growth                                                               
in unfunded pension and other  post employment benefit costs.  He                                                               
explained  that nationwide,  funding  ratios  for public  pension                                                               
funds grew from  about 80 percent in 1990 to  over 100 percent in                                                               
2001.   Due to the  successful economy  at the time,  many states                                                               
negotiated more generous benefit  contracts with their employees.                                                               
Unfortunately, shortly after that  "the bubble burst" and pension                                                               
funding ratios  started to fall  significantly.  As a  result, by                                                               
2005,  there  was  a  nationwide  pension  funding  deficit  (not                                                               
including medical  benefits) of over  $340 billion.   The problem                                                               
of  unfunded liability  has grown  exponentially as  other costs,                                                               
such as medical  costs, continue to grow.   Unfunded pension fund                                                               
liability considered a  debt of the state by  Standard and Poor's                                                               
financial rating service, he said.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:55:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. INGRASSIA referred to page 2  of the handout and said that in                                                               
1999 the  funding ratios  for PERS/TRS were  106 percent  and 103                                                               
percent,  respectively.    Since   then  the  unfunded  actuarial                                                               
accrued  liability  (UAAL)  has increased  dramatically  and  the                                                               
cumulative  funding ratio  for  PERS/TRS  combined has  decreased                                                               
from 67.6 percent  in 2004 to 64.1 percent in  2005.  The funding                                                               
ratio might  be even  lower if  one were  to examine  the figures                                                               
from 2006, he said.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HAWKER observed that today's  presentation does not require                                                               
the  most  recent data  on  the  PERS/TRS liability;  rather  the                                                               
financing  opportunities that  are  being  discussed today  apply                                                               
regardless of the details of the data.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:56:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. INGRASSIA explained  that an 80 percent funding  ratio is the                                                               
minimum level required  for a pension fund  to be self-sustaining                                                               
based on the  earnings that it generates.  If  a pension fund has                                                               
a ratio below 80 percent,  the pension authority should take some                                                               
action to  fix it;  pensions funded  at 80  percent or  above are                                                               
probably in pretty good shape, he opined.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  INGRASSIA  described  the UAAL  as  the  difference  between                                                               
assets currently  in the  pension fund and  the present  value of                                                               
the  required payments  to the  existing  plan participants  over                                                               
time.     Each  year  a   state's  pension  system   reviews  the                                                               
assumptions  in the  pension fund  actuarial report  to determine                                                               
the  required  payment stream  and  compare  it to  the  earnings                                                               
potential of the assets on  hand.  The pro-forma annual shortfall                                                               
is then discounted at the  assumed interest rate, which in Alaska                                                               
is  8.25  percent,   to  determine  the  present   value  of  the                                                               
shortfall.   The  UAAL is  essentially  a debt  which carries  an                                                               
interest rate of  8.25 percent.  In Alaska,  this debt obligation                                                               
is constitutionally  protected by Article  XII, Section 7  of the                                                               
Alaska State Constitution, he noted.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  INGRASSIA described  pension  obligation bonds  (POBs) as  a                                                               
method to refinance pension fund debt  in order to lower the cost                                                               
of  the existing  debt to  plan participants.   He  observed that                                                               
this is an ideal time to  look at POBs because interest rates are                                                               
at a 30-40  year low, as is shown  by the chart on page  4 of the                                                               
handout.   He said  that the  state could  issue POBs  in today's                                                               
market  at  about a  5.56  percent  interest  rate, which  is  an                                                               
attractive  refinancing possibility  when  compared  to the  8.25                                                               
percent interest accruing on the  UAAL.  The potential savings to                                                               
the state from refinancing are significant, he noted.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:00:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  observed that an 80  percent funding ratio                                                               
leaves 20  percent unfunded,  therefore the  state is  relying on                                                               
the interest to pay some percent  of the benefits.  He questioned                                                               
whether  the 80  percent target  is sufficient  to allow  for the                                                               
state to make the payments it is scheduled to make.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  INGRASSIA related  that his  research in  the pension  field                                                               
indicates that at  80 percent, there is an  earnings potential to                                                               
get  to 100  percent  funding.   A  fund  could  target a  higher                                                               
funding  ratio,  he  noted,  but   at  80  percent  the  earnings                                                               
potential  is  sufficient  to  allow  the fund  to  grow  to  100                                                               
percent.    Although  a  study   by  the  state's  actuary,  Buck                                                               
Consultants, used  an 85  percent target  for one  fund and  a 90                                                               
percent   target  for   another,   the   Municipal  Finance   and                                                               
Infrastructure  Group  used  80   percent  to  keep  the  numbers                                                               
manageable.   It  is the  state's decision  to determine  at what                                                               
level to fund its pension plans, he noted.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON asked  whether the  choice to  fund at  80                                                               
percent requires  the state to make  20 percent more to  fund its                                                               
future liability.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:03:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  INGRASSIA said  another  component to  consider  is that  of                                                               
employer  contributions,  which  can  also  be  higher  than  the                                                               
ongoing "run  rate" of the  requirements.  The  aforementioned is                                                               
what has been happening.   The higher employer contribution rates                                                               
are much higher than the ongoing run  rate to try and make up the                                                               
unfunded  liability.    He   indicated  that  earnings,  employer                                                               
contributions,  and other  outside  contributions  are all  taken                                                               
into consideration.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:03:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  followed up  by clarifying that  under the                                                               
scenario presented  today, the 80  percent funding  might require                                                               
an employer contribution rate increase  to make up the additional                                                               
20 percent.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. INGRASSIA  noted his  agreement with  Representative Seaton's                                                               
clarification,  and noted  that  the state  could  have a  higher                                                               
target number than 80 percent.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:04:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HAWKER said  that in planning the  presentation, 80 percent                                                               
seemed like a good number  for discussion purposes and he pointed                                                               
out that with market possibilities,  funding at 100 percent could                                                               
be  overaggressive and  result  in an  over-funded  program.   He                                                               
reminded   the  committee   that   the   determination  of   what                                                               
constitutes  full funding  and other  alternatives,  is a  policy                                                               
call.   He said  that other alternatives  which may  be discussed                                                               
include making  ongoing additional  contributions to  the pension                                                               
funds.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  INGRASSIA  noted  that  the  80  percent  funding  ratio  is                                                               
considered the minimum  funding level.  He referred to  page 4 of                                                               
the committee handout and described  as significant the potential                                                               
savings to  the state in  refinancing from 8.25  percent interest                                                               
to  5.56 percent  interest.   For example,  the issuance  of $2.1                                                               
billion  in bonds  for PERS  could result  in a  savings of  $626                                                               
million in present value savings,  while issuance of $1.3 billion                                                               
in bonds  could save  $384 million in  present value  savings for                                                               
TRS.   He  clarified that  to fund  at 80  percent meant  funding                                                               
enough to  get to  an 80  percent funding  ratio; not  funding 80                                                               
percent of the unfunded liability.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  INGRASSIA  emphasized that  there  are  numerous factors  to                                                               
consider  and that  all  the numbers  are  based on  assumptions.                                                               
Factors  which affect  the size  of the  UAAL include:  actuarial                                                               
assumptions  such as  life expectancy  and demographics,  assumed                                                               
rate   of  return,   actual   investment   returns,  changes   in                                                               
contractual benefits,  and benefit  cost assumptions  compared to                                                               
actual experience.  Due to these  variables, the size of the UAAL                                                               
is  constantly shifting,  which  is  one reason  to  avoid a  100                                                               
percent ratio.  He identified  three possible options for funding                                                               
Alaska's  UAAL:   upfront  cash  contributions  by the  state  or                                                               
employers   from   any    surplus   funds,   increased   employer                                                               
contributions,  or pre-fund  with  POB proceeds  at 5.56  percent                                                               
interest.   Pension fund managers  can reach their  funding goals                                                               
by  mixing  and  matching  these alternatives,  he  informed  the                                                               
committee.  He  said that due to growth  in unfunded liabilities,                                                               
a number of states have issued POBs over the last few years.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  INGRASSIA informed  Representative  Gruenberg that  Goldman,                                                               
Sachs & Co. has done underwriting  with the state in the past and                                                               
hopes to continue to do business  with the state, noting that his                                                               
company earns fees as a bond underwriter.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:10:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROSES expressed  concern that  the interest  rate                                                               
available to  the state  will not  be as  attractive if  too many                                                               
states issue these  bonds at the same time,  thereby flooding the                                                               
bond market.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  INGRASSIA  explained  that  the  assumption  is  that  these                                                               
pension bonds  will be  taxable bonds, and  since most  bonds are                                                               
non-taxable, the  market for taxable  bonds is  almost unlimited.                                                               
As  an example,  the  state  of Illinois  issued  $10 billion  in                                                               
taxable  pension  bonds in  2003,  and  the primary  buyers  were                                                               
European  banks   which  would   not  normally   consider  buying                                                               
municipal debt.   There is  a saying  in the taxable  market that                                                               
"size opens eyes,"  meaning big taxable programs  are more liquid                                                               
and more attractive to big pension  funds and banks, he said.  He                                                               
offered that  "we do not  really see  any constraint in  terms of                                                               
the market for taxable pension bonds."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:12:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. INGRASSIA, in response to  a question about whether bonds are                                                               
always  profitable  to  the  issuers,  directed  the  committee's                                                               
attention to the table on page  6 of the handout which shows that                                                               
some states  sold bonds  "right as the  bubble was  bursting" and                                                               
were not  profitable by 2004.   However, if  one looks at  a time                                                               
progression,  the bonds  generally  catch  up.   As  of 2004,  84                                                               
percent of POBs  were profitable, 7 percent were  at a break-even                                                               
point, and 9 percent had lost money, he said.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HAWKER  indicated that risk  assessment and  examination of                                                               
other state's  experiences with  pension bonds  would need  to be                                                               
considered by the committee prior to moving HB 13.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  asked whether  the state could  use the                                                               
permanent fund  as a funding  source instead of selling  bonds on                                                               
the open market.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:14:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  HAWKER replied  that although  that concept  could not  be                                                               
considered  today,  perhaps  representatives from  the  permanent                                                               
fund could address this at a future time.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. INGRASSIA  reminded the committee  that an issue  to consider                                                               
is  how  the  various  financial  rating  agencies  view  pension                                                               
liabilities.    He  explained  that   the  rating  agencies  have                                                               
slightly  different views,  but they  all tend  to view  unfunded                                                               
liability as  a debt of the  state.  Furthermore, if  the debt is                                                               
not  being solved,  it  is  viewed as  a  problem.   Despite  the                                                               
different ways that  rating agencies view pension  fund debt, the                                                               
bottom line is that implementation of  a plan to address and fund                                                               
the  existing UAAL  and  a funding  plan  for future  obligations                                                               
could be considered a credit positive.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  INGRASSIA said  the total  annual employer  contribution for                                                               
pension  liabilities  has  the following  two  components:    the                                                               
normal pension  contribution amount  required to meet  the annual                                                               
pension expenses  and the UAAL component.   The UAAL is  sized to                                                               
help amortize the  unfunded liabilities over time.   The UAAL has                                                               
been receiving  a lot  of attention in  this state,  he observed.                                                               
To achieve  an 80  percent funding  ratio, the  states' employers                                                               
would have to  contribute $2.1 billion for PERS  and $1.3 billion                                                               
for TRS,  he said.  However,  he cautioned that these  figure are                                                               
based on information  from 2005 and would  be considerably higher                                                               
if  today's  numbers were  used.    He  told the  committee  that                                                               
although some states  have sold bonds to make  one year's payment                                                               
to their funds, he does not recommend that approach.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:17:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  INGRASSIA stressed  that recognizing  and managing  risks is                                                               
one of the keys to POB issuance  success.  He said that the broad                                                               
range of  investments utilized by pension  funds generally result                                                               
in returns substantially higher than  today's debt rates.  If the                                                               
actual  returns  are  above   the  assumed  actuarial  investment                                                               
return, the  savings from  the issuance of  pension bonds  can be                                                               
even higher  than predicted.   Conversely, earnings of  less than                                                               
the  current 8.25  percent, but  more  than 5.56  percent of  the                                                               
bonds  would   still  result  in  savings,   although  less  than                                                               
projected.   The issuer only  goes negative if the  earnings rate                                                               
on the  pension assets is  less than the 5.56  percent predicted,                                                               
he said.   Pension  obligation bonds  can help  improve relations                                                               
with local  governments by providing  more security and  a higher                                                               
funding ratio and can permit  more stable budget planning for all                                                               
pension fund participants.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:18:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HAWKER  advised that  in later  meetings the  pension asset                                                               
managers  would present  information  on the  state's past  track                                                               
record for past returns.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  INGRASSIA explained  that potential  risks include  negative                                                               
returns  if  the  returns  are  below  the  bond  interest  rate.                                                               
Furthermore, bond issuance converts  "soft" obligations to "hard"                                                               
obligations.   Last,  POBs  result  in a  lump-sum  payment to  a                                                               
pension  fund,  which  concentrates rather  than  spreads  market                                                               
risk.  There are ways to  manage this market risk, he assured the                                                               
committee.   He  clarified that  a  "soft" obligation  is one  in                                                               
which the debt is  owed, but the details of when  and how it will                                                               
be paid  are not set.   However, once bonds  are sold there  is a                                                               
fixed  amortization schedule,  which  must be  paid  in a  timely                                                               
fashion  or  default is  risked.    Therefore,  it has  a  "hard"                                                               
schedule.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:22:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RICHARD  A.  SCHOBER,  JR.,  Vice-President,  Municipal  Finance,                                                               
Goldman, Sachs  & Co., reminded  the committee that for  the past                                                               
two years there has been an  established cap in Alaska [which has                                                               
now  been  repealed]  on  the annual  amount  by  which  employer                                                               
pension   obligations   can  increase.      As   a  result,   the                                                               
contributions  have  been  low.   When  the  actuaries  have  re-                                                               
calculated what  is needed to fund  the UAAL, the state  has seen                                                               
gigantic increases  in the  required employer  contribution rate.                                                               
Although the state  does not have to pay the  UAAL right away, it                                                               
will have  to pay someday and  the cost of making  the payment in                                                               
the future will dramatically increase.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. INGRASSIA reminded the committee  that since the Alaska State                                                               
Constitution limits  the issuance  of general obligation  debt to                                                               
capital  improvements, state  issuance of  POBs will  require new                                                               
legislative  authority,  including   the  probability  that  debt                                                               
service  payment on  POBs will  require an  annual appropriation.                                                               
He summarized that  assuming an 80 percent funding  ratio, if the                                                               
state were to issue $1.3 billion  in bonds for the TRS program at                                                               
5.56 percent, the total gross  savings over 25 years is estimated                                                               
to be  $720 million,  which equates to  present value  savings of                                                               
about  $384 million.   For  the  PERS program,  issuance of  $2.1                                                               
billion  in  bonds  would  result  in a  savings  of  about  $1.1                                                               
billion, which equates to present  value savings of $626 million.                                                               
If a  higher savings rate  is chosen,  the savings rate  would be                                                               
proportionally higher, he noted.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:26:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. INGRASSIA  referred to the matrix  on page 12 of  the handout                                                               
and explained  that it  provides a reference  point by  which the                                                               
fund  managers can  mix and  match policies  to achieve  a target                                                               
funding ratio of 80 percent by 2032.   If no bonds are issued and                                                               
no cash  contribution is made, the  average employer contribution                                                               
rate for TRS over the next 10  years would be 44.96 percent.  The                                                               
matrix  shows  how  the employer  contribution  rate  can  change                                                               
depending  on  whether  POBs  are issued  and  whether  any  cash                                                               
contributions are made to the UAAL.   A 5 percent decrease in the                                                               
employer contribution  rate equates to  an annual savings  of $32                                                               
million, he  said.  He  suggested this  type of payment  could be                                                               
done over  a period  of a few  years, to ease  the effect  on the                                                               
general fund.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  INGRASSIA  indicated  that the  aforementioned  calculations                                                               
regarding  TRS  are based  on  the  wage  base of  both  defined-                                                               
benefits   employees   [Tiers   1-3]   and   defined-contribution                                                               
employees [Tier IV].                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:30:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  INGRASSIA  emphasized that  the  matrix  scenarios shown  on                                                               
pages 12-13  of the handout  provide a useful, powerful  tool for                                                               
policymakers to use  in considering how to  approach pension fund                                                               
debt.  He  told the committee that for the  PERS plan, a decrease                                                               
of  5 percent  in the  employer contribution  rate equates  to an                                                               
annual savings of $94.8 million.   He noted that Chair Hawker had                                                               
requested  a review  of past  earnings using  an actual  earnings                                                               
rate  of 8.1  percent,  rather than  the  expected 8.25  percent.                                                               
Page 14  of the  handout shows  the results  of that  review, and                                                               
indicates that  the lowered earning rate  increases the projected                                                               
employer contribution  rate by approximately 1  percent annually,                                                               
so  the  employer  contribution  rate  is  not  as  sensitive  to                                                               
earnings rates as one might think, he said.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:32:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  INGRASSIA  posed  the  possibility   that  the  state  could                                                               
consider ways  to optimize use  of available cash.   For example,                                                               
capital  construction needs  are  typically  funded from  ongoing                                                               
revenues, and it  may be possible to finance  the state's capital                                                               
construction requirements with tax-exempt  bonds, and use general                                                               
fund revenues  to contribute to the  UAAL.  The examples  on page                                                               
17  of the  handout show  the predicted  results using  different                                                               
funding  options.   This  may be  a way  to  achieve the  desired                                                               
policy goals  of funding capital  needs and reducing the  UAAL by                                                               
issuance of tax-exempt  bonds, which have a  lower interest rate,                                                               
and therefore may be less of a burden on the state general fund.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  HAWKER observed  that the  scenarios shown  on the  matrix                                                               
could assist the policymakers to  look at the state's finances in                                                               
a more contemporary manner than has been done in the past.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROSES  expressed concern that  if a lot  of states                                                               
issue  tax-exempt  bonds  at  the  same time,  it  could  have  a                                                               
negative  effect on  the bond  market, and  thus on  the expected                                                               
rate of return.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:36:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. INGRASSIA  agreed that  there could be  a marginal  impact on                                                               
the bond  markets if many  states issued tax-exempt bonds  at the                                                               
same time.   However, he reminded the committee,  very few states                                                               
have  the magnitude  of cash  available for  capital expenditures                                                               
that  Alaska  has, so  their  ability  to access  the  tax-exempt                                                               
market  would   be  limited.     The  possibility   mentioned  by                                                               
Representative  Roses does  in theory  exist,  but Mr.  Ingrassia                                                               
stated he  does not  think it  would be  a realistic  problem for                                                               
Alaska.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  HAWKER   reminded  the  committee  that   there  are  many                                                               
resources available to the committee  on this complex subject and                                                               
that he can provide direct  contact information for the committee                                                               
members.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON observed  that it would be  a policy change                                                               
to target  funding the  pension plans at  80 percent,  since past                                                               
policy has been to target funding at 100 percent.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HAWKER  said that consideration  of a target  funding ratio                                                               
for the pension  fund liabilities would be an  excellent topic to                                                               
discuss with the Department of Revenue.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:39:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CAROL  SAMUELS,   Vice-President,  Seattle-Northwest  Securities,                                                               
told the committee that the  pension benefits situation in Oregon                                                               
was  very  similar  to  Alaska's situation.    She  provided  the                                                               
committee  with  copies  of  a  PowerPoint  presentation  titled,                                                               
"Pension Obligation Bonds, The Oregon  Story," dated February 14,                                                               
2007.  Referring  to the page titled, "Oregon  vs. Alaska Pension                                                               
System," she  described the Oregon  pension system as  about four                                                               
times  the size  of Alaska's,  with an  asset base  of about  $53                                                               
billion.   It is a single  system with multiple tiers  and covers                                                               
around  325,000  employees.    The  current  post-reform  average                                                               
employer  contribution rate  is 15  percent, compared  to a  pre-                                                               
reform  employer contribution  rate of  around 30  percent.   The                                                               
current  funded  ratio is  about  91  percent, and  the  unfunded                                                               
liability as of  December 31, 2005, is $4.6 billion,  down from a                                                               
high of $17 billion prior to 2003.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:43:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SAMUELS  described bonding  as  a  popular tool  across  the                                                               
country  for  financing pension  fund  liabilities.   In  Oregon,                                                               
local governments  and school districts have  statutory authority                                                               
to  issue debt  separately for  what are  termed "full  faith and                                                               
credit obligations."  In general,  the issuance authority is more                                                               
flexible in  Oregon than in  Alaska, and does not  require yearly                                                               
appropriation, she noted.  Smaller  entities could use "intercept                                                               
agreements" with  the state  to secure  the pledge  of additional                                                               
operating funds  so as to  achieve a  "state" credit rating.   In                                                               
2003,  the  Oregon  voters approved  a  constitutional  amendment                                                               
authorizing the  state itself to issue  general obligation bonds,                                                               
she said.   She informed the  committee that if Alaska  wanted to                                                               
take a  similar route and  enact constitutional  and/or statutory                                                               
reforms to allow it to issue  bonds, it could bring the available                                                               
interest rate down further because  "that is considered to be the                                                               
safest form of security out there."   She cautioned that if bonds                                                               
are  sold,  it  is  critical to  consider  "housekeeping"  issues                                                               
carefully to assure that the  participating employers receive the                                                               
credit due them.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SAMUELS  stated   that  HB  13  incorporates   many  of  the                                                               
provisions Oregon found useful,  such as intercept agreements and                                                               
lump-sum accounts.   In  Oregon, over  175 employers  have issued                                                               
approximately $5.4 billion in POBs.   Using an 8 percent expected                                                               
rate  of return,  the savings  are  estimated to  be around  $1.3                                                               
billion.   However,  the actual  returns have  been substantially                                                               
higher than  the projected 8  percent she said, referring  to the                                                               
chart  titled,  "Recent Returns  -  Lump  Sum Accounts."    These                                                               
returns, which reflect the True  Interest Cost (TIC), support the                                                               
prior observation that size matters  and larger issuances receive                                                               
more  favorable  interest rates.    Ms.  Samuels emphasized  that                                                               
timing is really key, and  that bond issuance transactions should                                                               
not be considered  a guaranteed savings, although  Oregon has had                                                               
a positive experience thus far.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. SAMUELS pointed out that it  is important not to over promise                                                               
results, and  for people to  understand there is no  guarantee of                                                               
savings and that unfunded liabilities  can continue to fluctuate.                                                               
Furthermore,  she   emphasized  that  accounting   and  crediting                                                               
decisions  should  be worked  out  as  carefully as  possible  in                                                               
advance of any bond issuance.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:52:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SAMUELS  acknowledged  that  the funding  scenarios  on  the                                                               
handout page  titled, "Oregon vs. Alaska:  Potential Savings," is                                                               
based  on an  assumed bond  interest rate  of 6  percent and  the                                                               
assumption that the  entire unfunded liability is  funded.  These                                                               
numbers are  chosen for  the sake of  illustration, and  she said                                                               
her firm would  likely not recommend funding  the entire unfunded                                                               
liability.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HAWKER reminded the committee  that there is no transaction                                                               
on the  table nor  is any  commitment to any  firm being  made at                                                               
this  point.    The  investment banking  community  is  providing                                                               
information  for further  consideration  of these  issues by  the                                                               
committee, he said.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:55:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PAUL  BLOOM,  Director  &  Regional  Manager,  Pacific  Northwest                                                               
Public Finance Group, Merrill Lynch,  told the committee his firm                                                               
has  been  very involved  in  state  public finance  matters  and                                                               
helped draft  and analyze last year's  House Bill 278.   He noted                                                               
that it  may be in the  state's best interest to  have the option                                                               
to  issue POBs  as  part of  its "tool  kit"  to address  pension                                                               
funding  challenges.   Today's  low interest  rates  make this  a                                                               
particularly attractive option at this  time, he said.  Depending                                                               
on the  funding ratio scenario  chosen, Alaska  could potentially                                                               
capture  hundreds  of  millions   of  dollars  in  present  value                                                               
savings.  He  opined that it is critical to  understand that POBs                                                               
are only one of  a number of tools that could  be used to address                                                               
the  pension  fund liability  issues.    There  are a  number  of                                                               
factors to  consider when  addressing this  issue.   He suggested                                                               
that   a  proactive   approach  to   asset  management   includes                                                               
exploration  of ways  to protect  the state's  investment returns                                                               
from changes  in inflation  and downturns  in the  equity market.                                                               
He offered  that the passage  of HB 13  would be a  positive step                                                               
for Alaska to take.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   SEATON   asked   how   current   equity   market                                                               
performance affects risks in the bond market.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
5:02:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BLOOM  replied  that  is   why  his  firm  recommends  being                                                               
proactive  in  looking at  ways  to  protect investments  against                                                               
market downturns,  noting that there  are things an  investor can                                                               
do to protect itself from changes  in the equity market.  He said                                                               
that the returns in the fixed  income market are not generally as                                                               
high  as those  in  the  equity markets,  but  that fixed  income                                                               
investments may help  stabilize the funding ratio  of the state's                                                               
pension funds.   Some employers may  be willing to have  a higher                                                               
employer  contribution  rate  if  it   would  result  in  a  more                                                               
predictable  and stable  system,  he  said.   He  noted that  the                                                               
current allocation  of assets in  Alaska's system is  about 60-70                                                               
percent in  equities.  In general  a mix of 75  percent in equity                                                               
and 25 percent  in fixed income is a fairly  common asset mix for                                                               
pension systems.   There are adjustments  that can be made  to an                                                               
asset mix to help protect it and lock in gains, he advised.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  HAWKER  said that  future  consideration  of HB  13  would                                                               
likely include discussions with  the state's asset managers about                                                               
the pension  fund portfolio past performance  and possible future                                                               
direction.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
[HB 13 was held over.]                                                                                                          

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